Thread: Like open source? Read this and take a stand.

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  1. #1 Like open source? Read this and take a stand. 
    Senior Member PSP Elite Hacker DarkED's Avatar
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    http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortu...n=money_latest

    Essentially, Microsoft is now claiming that Linux and various Linux-related open source projects have infringed on 200+ Microsoft patents. They are trying to gain royalties from open source vendors, companies and end users, which could effectively force people like you and me to pay royalties to Microsoft if we want to use Linux and/or open source software.

    This is an outrage. Microsoft infringes on THOUSANDS of patents, most notably from Mac and OS/2 in the Windows 3.1 / Windows95 days. Their entire operating system and 90% of the software they produce (even to this day) is full of patent infringemet. Even now, Vista infringes on compositing extensions (used in the Aero interface) which were originally patented by Apple for use in OS X, if I have my facts straight. Vista also infringes on a large number of Linux patents, not to mention all their GPL violations. This is undeniably a case of the pot calling the kettle black, and knowing Microsoft they'll get away with it.

    You know, it's really funny that they can look at some open source apps and say "Hey! They're infringing!" but WE'RE not allowed to look through THEIR code because they are proprietary and closed-source. This is so unfair it actually makes me angry.

    From this point on I am boycotting all Microsoft products. X360, Microsoft games, Windows, I don't care - if it has a Microsoft logo on it, I'm not buying it, and as of tomorrow I won't be using any more Microsoft products on my computers. Microsoft is greedy and underhanded, and I honestly can't understand why the government doesn't step in and shut them down for what THEY'VE done.
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  2. #2  
    Senior Member I Modded My PSP Sevanyr's Avatar
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    I support Microsoft wholly and without resistance under one condition:

    That Microsoft merely show the open source community the code they have stolen. That's it, that's all. If the open source community is indeed using code which isn't legally allowed to them, then that sort of defeats the idea of it being open source and thus isn't open source any longer.

    It dosen't get any simpler. The best way Microsoft can discredit the open source community is to back up thier accusations with proof. I'm a big fan of open source, and while I'm not big on Linux (Though I do keep an old rig dual booted with Linux, but never use it), I believe that what they're doing is ultimately good for the community.
    Hong Kong TA-082 PSP-1006 /w Chotto Shot Camera, 8gb Memory Stick Pro Duo and GTA:LCS Unpatched.
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  3. #3  
    Senior Member PSP Elite Hacker DarkED's Avatar
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    It's not stolen code - it's stolen ideas. Patents. If it was stolen code I could understand, but these are patents which are just ideas. Basically Microsoft is saying that open source stole their idea, therefore they are allowed to sue people and charge royalties. However, patents on SOFTWARE is stupid. I mean, it's software, in cyberspace. It's not a physical object. Nobody 'invented' it, they just wrote some (already invented) code to make something. Same with the open source community. There were operating systems before Microsoft and there will be operating systems after Microsoft. The only reason Microsoft is pissed is because some parts of the Linux GUI and some features of open source apps are 'too similar' to Windows and it's respective apps. Microsoft is only pissed because they failed with Vista and Linux is starting to really hit home with 'newb' users who don't want DRM bullshit in everything they do. This whole campaign is over the fact that Microsoft is anti-competitive.
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  4. #4  
    Senior Member I Modded My PSP Sevanyr's Avatar
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    Why is this even an issue then? I could sue anyone for anything claiming it was my idea and now have to reveal any of the original source of the idea I supposedly have.

    If this is what you say is going on, I hardly think Microsoft is going to get very far.

    Edit: In case what I just said was vague, what I'm saying is that in order to prove ideas stolen they need to prove application of said patents and that means coughing up valuable source code. Something they're not going to do.
    Hong Kong TA-082 PSP-1006 /w Chotto Shot Camera, 8gb Memory Stick Pro Duo and GTA:LCS Unpatched.
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  5. #5  
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    instead of boycotting microsoft, a way for you to make them LOSE money would be to buy an elite (they're still losing shitloads on hardware), mod it, and steal all the games so they don't get any royalties from those. It won't hold up. We still have the source, meaning we can compile it and do whatever the **** we want with it. They can't stop us. It's public domain now. They don't own the code. anyways, no sense in just not buying their software, may as well pirate it.
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  6. #6  
    Senior Member PSP Elite Hacker outsider's Avatar
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    **** microsoft
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  7. #7  
    Senior Member PSP Elite Hacker urineanus's Avatar
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    MS has their hands in everything, avoiding them will be difficult. I already don't buy MS stuff. ARRRR


    I read this on engadget as well, and laughed at their moronic logic of steve ballmer.
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  8. #8  
    Senior Member I Modded My PSP whitelamp's Avatar
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    Hell, it should be apple and the linux community wanting to sue THEM, not the other way around. If MS can prove that code is being used illegally (<---pfft, like MS will ever cough up code they stole in the first place], that's another thing altogether.
    This just makes me want to boycott MS even more.

    (not to mention making me want to jump on the Apple ship)
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  9. #9  
    Senior Member PSP Elite Hacker urineanus's Avatar
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    jump aboard the SS Mac, we are happy here.
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  10. #10  
    Senior Member PSP Elite Hacker DarkED's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sevanyr
    Why is this even an issue then? I could sue anyone for anything claiming it was my idea and now have to reveal any of the original source of the idea I supposedly have.

    If this is what you say is going on, I hardly think Microsoft is going to get very far.
    Check out the article - Microsoft already IS getting far. A bunch of companies have already paid up and bought these Linux licenses from Microsoft. It's not because those companies believe in this patent nonsense - it's because those companies know that if they DON'T pay, Microsoft has the money to fund a legal campaign that would run em ALL out of business (and yes, that's the kinda shit Microsoft does on a regular basis.) Also take note of the whole Novell thing going on there, it's in the article. Something is seriously wrong in the world when we have to pay Microsoft to use their biggest (and FREE) competitor, Linux.
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  11. #11  
    Senior Member I Modded My PSP whitelamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkED
    Check out the article - Microsoft already IS getting far. A bunch of companies have already paid up and bought these Linux licenses from Microsoft. Also take note of the whole Novell thing going on there, it's in the article. Something is seriously wrong in the world when we have to pay Microsoft to use their biggest (and FREE) competitor, Linux.
    Something tells me that the Linux community just might legally turn pirate if MS continues to succeed in buying these "licenses" from Linux corporations.
    EDIT: I mean charging royalties.
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  12. #12  
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    Quote Originally Posted by whitelamp
    Something tells me that the Linux community just might legally turn pirate if MS continues to succeed in buying these "licenses" from Linux corporations.
    Nah, it's not Microsoft buying Linux licenses from Linux companies (like Red Hat or Novell.) It's Microsoft charging those companies royalties (like Red Hat and Novell) for "Using our ideas that you put into your OS." Basically Microsoft is charging Linux companies to write and use Linux. Utterly rediculous. This has to be against the law somehow and I hope Richard Stallman's people (Stallman runs FOSS) can find a way to get around this.

    Otherwise, we in the Linux community just may have to turn to piracy to use our favorite OS, and that would basically be game null and void in Microsoft's favor. Let me stress just how bad this could get - If we (as in, people like me who use only open source apps and an open source OS) had to pay Microsoft a royalty to use open source software / OS'es, it would practically be the apocalyptic outcome for us. It would literally be the end of everything open source currently stands for. It would be like handing the keys to the entire universe over to Microsoft and saying "Here you go - have fun with it." If Linux falls, only Apple remains in Microsoft's way, and if it came to that, I'm not so sure Apple would be able to hold out forever. If Linux AND Apple fell... well, that pretty much means that Microsoft would have a big hand in everything concerning modern technology. They would basically own the industry. And that would be very very bad. You can't be called a monopoly when there's just no competition to compete against.
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  13. #13  
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    Sorry to double post, I know the rules. But I needed to bump this thread.

    Linus has commented on this nonsense:

    http://www.informationweek.com/news/...leID=199600443

    Quote Originally Posted by The Article
    Linus Torvalds, lead developer of the Linux kernel, has a sharp retort to Microsoft executives' statements in a Fortune magazine article that Linux and other open-source code violate 235 Microsoft patents.

    "It's certainly a lot more likely that Microsoft violates patents than Linux does," said Torvalds, holder of the Linux trademark. If the source code for Windows could be subjected to the same critical review that Linux has been, Microsoft would find itself in violation of patents held by other companies, said Torvalds.

    "Basic operating system theory was pretty much done by the end of the 1960s. IBM probably owned thousands of really 'fundamental' patents," Torvalds said in a response to questions submitted by InformationWeek. But he doesn't like any form of patent saber rattling. "The fundamental stuff was done about half a century ago and has long, long since lost any patent protection," he wrote.

    Microsoft should name the patents that it claims have been violated so the claims can be tested in court or so open-source developers can rewrite code to avoid the violation, Torvalds wrote.

    "Naming them would make it either clear that Linux isn't infringing at all (which is quite possible, especially if the patents are bad), or would make it possible to avoid infringing by coding around whatever silly thing they claim," he said.

    "So the whole, 'We have a list and we're not telling you,' itself should tell you something," Torvalds said of Microsoft's stance in the Fortune story. And for good measure, he added: "Don't you think that if Microsoft actually had some really foolproof patent, they'd just tell us and go, 'nyaah, nyaah, nyaah!'"

    Microsoft would prefer not to actually sue anyone, particularly a Linux user who's also a Microsoft customer. "They'd have to name the patents then, and they're probably happier with the FUD [fear, uncertainty, doubt] than with any lawsuit," Torvalds predicted.
    Glad to see Linus thinks it's ridiculous too
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  14. #14  
    Senior Member I Modded My PSP whitelamp's Avatar
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    Damn straight.
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  15. #15  
    Retired Moderator PSP Elite Hacker Julie's Avatar
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    makes me wanna buy a mac even more now
    R.I.P Zoidberg
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